Seth Godin AKA F.X. Nine Interview

Seth Godin, creator of Nintendo World’s of Power stopped by the pod to talk about how the World’s of Power book series was concieved of, as well as is past, present, and future in the gaming and book publishing industry. You won’t want to miss this one!

Video Version

Automated Transcript

You know who else is ready, Phil? Oh? Hey there, everybody. Oh, God. We're ready.

Phil  0:08
It was it's us.

Kevin Erhard  0:10
It says Welcome back to pixel it. My name is Kevin, with me as always is Phil.

Phil  0:15

Kevin Erhard  0:16
how you doing today, Phil?

Phil  0:17
Man, I'm having a good day about you.

Kevin Erhard  0:20
Having a great day, we just finished talking to FX nine himself Seth Godin. And I gotta tell you, that was probably one of the most unexpectedly uplifting phone calls we we've ever had. Oh, we've only had two of them with authors. And they both been wonderful. But Seth is such a sweetheart.

Phil  0:46
Yeah. Along with a really kick ass you know, history lesson on the 80s. And, you know, turns out he is literally the first person to adapt a video game to a book.

Kevin Erhard  1:01
He himself wrote wrote the first video game. Yeah, adaptation.

Phil  1:05
shins. That's crazy. Yeah. That's literally what we're basing this entire podcast around. And we had the originator on the show. So we're, it's all downhill from here, ladies. all downhill from here. Just your friends and family. Goodbye. This is it.

Kevin Erhard  1:21
So we we spoke to Seth a little bit about the FX nine and Nintendo worlds of power. how that got started. He gave us literally the beat for beat of how that happened between himself and Nintendo. The third party companies Scholastic, and all that stuff. It was a great conversation. Fantastic. Yeah. Anything you want to add before before we throw it over to our past selves?

Phil  1:50
Uh, no. Let's let's I want to, I want to know what our pastels are up to. Let's let's hit them.

Kevin Erhard  1:54
Now. Let's let's go take a listen.

Phil  1:57
Thank you for taking us up on this by the way. What a blast. Yeah, we're excited. We I told Kevin I was like, this might be a long shot. But I went ahead and reached out to Seth Godin. And I think it was, I think, Kevin, I think you actually were like, he's already replied and said yes. So like,

Kevin Erhard  2:19
I got the push notification on my phone. And it was like a few minutes later said Yes, sure. And I was like, Oh, okay. Well,

Seth Godin  2:26
I'm actually saying no to almost podcast because I get a whole bunch last year. But how could I resist?

Phil  2:33
Yeah, that's so great to hear. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll do we want to just jump right into it. Let's

Seth Godin  2:40
jump right into it. Tell me what you want to know. I will reveal all

Phil  2:43
I mean, okay. The obvious first start is what's How did this begin? How did you start with worlds of power with this, this project?

Seth Godin  2:51
So I used to be a book packager for a living, and it's a really cool profession that almost no one knows about has nothing to do with making book covers has to do with being a movie producer. But for books. I did 120 bucks a book a month for 10 years. I did books on the first book about emojis and Smiley's I did the first book on digital cash. I did almanacs, I did stain removal books. I spent seven years getting Stanley Kaplan, the person to let me do the Stanley Kaplan Test Prep books. It was just what can we bring to the world that the world needs. And so I was always waking up in the morning having a book problem, which is I needed enough to keep proposing so that I could keep my team of eight people busy, right. And along the way, I had also been spending time in the computer game business in 1983. I was brand manager for a lot of computer games Spinnaker, I worked with Arthur C. Clarke and Ray Bradbury. And Michael Creighton. I was 23 years old. It was amazing.

Phil  3:53
It's so amazing.

Seth Godin  3:54
I could talk about that all day. Then I went to prodigy as their first outside provider. And I built the most successful online game of all time at the time, called guts. But when video games showed up, I had a real problem. And the problem was, they make me really dizzy. It's part of my ADD, but I just I can't easily recover from playing a typical video game. Well, along the way, I discovered that the first project that I worked on was kids were buying these magazines filled with step by step cheats about how to win at video games. They were buying millions of them. And it occurred to me that kids who don't want to read don't read a magazine either, so why not make a videotape showing them how to win at video games. So what I did was I hired my 12 year old cousin and hooked up a super VHS recorder to his the output of his Nintendo and had him win All these games, that's amazing. And then I hired a professional voiceover actor named Guy named skip Rogers, not his real name, World Video Game champion. And he would read the script while the video was playing of how he was winning each level.

Phil  5:18
Oh my god, that explains so much. Literally speculating, as we

Seth Godin  5:28
didn't even get it. I didn't even get into the books yet. So I, I had done a video with Isaac Asimov of a murder mystery game called robots that Siskel and Ebert gave two thumbs up, which is pretty exciting. And so I had a relationship with Kodak. And I saw Kodak at the time, sold a lot of videotapes, and sold Kodak, these two videos of how to win it video game. And it was still to this day, one of my five best ideas. And unfortunately, there was a lot of politics at Kodak and a guy who didn't like me and he intentionally spiked the project. And at the same time, another company two months later came out with the same thing. It's millions and millions of them. And I was really struggling book packager at the time, and it would have made a big difference if they work. Alright, so I'm reeling from this. And I think, well, but clearly, I'm onto something. So I went back to my cousin's house, and at the time, he lived, I didn't live here, but he lived three blocks from where I am right now. And I went to his house, and I realized that Eric had never read a book for fun in his whole life. He was now 30 years old, and he and his friends, all of whom came, you know, from privileged literate households. Were spending their whole day playing video games. And I realized that the same way I had seen people like Alan Dean Foster who novelized movies, right possible to novelize the game. And I, when I was back, in the days of doing my computer games, I had actually done the first novelization of a computer game, a game called shadowkeep, which we work with Andy Foster on. So I knew it could be done. And so the plan was, let Eric play the games because I didn't want to get dizzy, I would come up with a three page summary of ostensibly what was happening, I would turn it into a 15 page. We called it a Bible that had, who the characters were, what their personalities were, etc. And then I would hire movie novelized authors, who knew or people who wrote Sweet Valley High End baby sitters club books, who knew how to turn a 15 page Bible into 125 page book. But before I did that, I had to get the rights from these, right. And it was different in the videotape thing, because I could argue fair use in the videotape thing, because I wasn't actually impacting their intellectual property rights. But here, I had to go and get the exclusive rights. And it was really very straightforward, Mr. A, who was a key player, and Nintendo didn't want to do business with me. But all the other ones did. Right. Once I had this guy on my side, who was their distributor, I could call up. I can't remember the guys name Konami. But he was like the first guy who said yes. And I was like, you're gonna get money. And I saw a lot of games, buys the book they're gonna make and that's what you do for a living. So Right. So I went down to speak to Scholastic. And I said, here's the deal. Now at the time, they I know, I'm talking too much right now.

Phil  8:40
This is really why we have you on here.

Seth Godin  8:45
At the time, classic hadn't published Harry Potter yet. It was a couple years before Harry Potter. And I went to the woman, Jean firewell, who actually brought Harry to the US. And I said, Jean, no, I want to do I know how to do this part, this part, this part, I have all the rights. This is really straightforward. And we're going to spread a lot of literacy. And Jean was fantastic. She said yes, immediately. And then I just had to do all the pieces. Right. And my editor on the other hand, Greg, nice guy had all these rules that scholastic was enforcing rules like characters aren't allowed to die, because we're scholastic. There's no devils vampires are called a lot. Now, remember, three years later, Harry Potter sharp, they're like, every single one of these rules. Right around these rules, and if you read Castlevania again, now you will see how like the gloom and doom of the game isn't quite in the right. So anyway, I found like three or four people who could write these books. It took less than five days for one of them to write a book because once they're good at it,

Kevin Erhard  9:56
you're just great guy.

Seth Godin  10:00
I think I paid $3,000 $4,000 for straight bi out there sort of making $1,000 a day. Yeah. And we sold more than a million books. Wow. And so now I will tell you the question, you should ask me next, and then I'll stop talking about you. By all means, I should say, why are the books written by FX nine?

Phil  10:21
Yeah, we did you know, it's it because on the cover, it says FX nine. And then when you open it up, it's FX nine Seth Godin production and then you actually do get the author's name. So we I think everyone assumes that FX nine wrote these.

Seth Godin  10:35
Correct. So the way bookstores are organized in the fiction section is not so much by genre and sub genre. They're organized by author. And if you want to go look for the Nintendo books, my look i n i n. So I know the name it started with ni N and Pathwork. That is

Kevin Erhard  10:59

Phil  11:00
That's it. That was literally, that's one of the questions. Now, where does the FX just kind of pop in your head? Because what you're doing is kind of futuristic sort of thing?

Seth Godin  11:09
Yeah. I'll tell I didn't want it to be gender. Gender Specific?

Phil  11:14
Sure. Fair enough. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, that's pretty Forward Thinking of you considering that. In those days, the stereotype the video games for boys was very prevalent. Oh, much more than nowadays.

Seth Godin  11:27
Oh, yeah. I mean, we were pushing a lot of envelopes about, if you look in the books, I'm still proud of how ever we did not fall into any of the misogynistic rightful traps that are so easy to do, because I'm like, I don't do this just for the money. If I want to make money, I would have done something else for a living. Sure. And I like I don't know that they're gonna sell a million copies. And I only made 10 cents a copy. So it's not like this was winning the lottery. But it was a lot of work. And one of the authors I hired some of the people who do this for a living are not the sort of people you would imagine coming over to your house for a barbecue.

Phil  12:06
And writers go on.

Seth Godin  12:09
There was one person who just had an enormous amount of trouble letting go. Yeah. And there was no email or anything. I mean, I had email, but I didn't have file transfer anything. Sure. So I ended up driving to this person's house. And I had to like, practically break into the house to take the kids out from their hands. Other people like Peter, who did three of them was amazing. He did every deadline, everything was formatted with clean copy was delightful. And then we also i typeset, the books myself on my Mac. And those were the first one of the early examples of desktop publishing, like getting the end spaces, right on the

Kevin Erhard  12:52
right, stuff like that. So you basically you basically did, you did all this all the work and just took it to scholastic and said, Here you go, here's here's a finished product. Go the will make a bunch of money with this. That's amazing. Now

Phil  13:11
we do it does say in a couple of books that it's it's how did they put it that it's not official adaptation, where it's not officially recognized. But yeah, there's some very strong,

Kevin Erhard  13:21
strong legalese in the front saying, but Nintendo had nothing to do with.

Seth Godin  13:28
Remember, so the deal, I don't know if you know how much you know about how the industry was working in those days. So if you were the guys who made the Commodore 64 and Spinnaker was making a game and selling millions and millions of copies, Commodore got nothing. Zero, right. And so the lesson that they learned in Japan, when they decided to make the Nintendo cartridges was come up with a patent, so that nobody can make a game without your permission. Right? And they used really strict monopoly power to control Yeah, how many units they would ship of your thing they could control how many Konami would make right and so all the people I was dealing with, were really afraid of offending Nintendo because Nintendo could shut them down in a minute. So I had a say, Mr. A, doesn't want you to say no, he just doesn't want to have Nintendo do it, but nothing bad will happen to you you can call his office and they will confirm this and they all checked before they did that. But because I wasn't a party to any of the transactions. I had to say Nintendo the corporation is hands off about

Phil  14:40
did that leave you feeling a little shaky? Like you're worried that maybe they change their mind and come like they did with 10 Gen for example, and some other gaming companies in those days?

Seth Godin  14:51
Well, having just had the the videotape thing completely blow up on me. The the magic of being a book packager and In those days was I didn't have any assets. So what did I get to take? Blew up, that would be a shame. But the advance from Scholastic was big enough that we were even before we started. So there were lots of there still are lots of very risk averse people in book publishing. But I took the position that ideas that spread when if you're doing good work that helps people, you will probably be fine. And if someone has a real problem, we'll just move on. Yeah.

Kevin Erhard  15:32
Yeah. So for So Mister A, that's Minobu airikkala that you're referring to? Right? Yep. Okay. Yeah. The President then President of Nintendo of America. No.

Seth Godin  15:46
He was incredibly powerful in order to get to him. I did a partnership with the distributor. The sales rep sorry, the sales rep for almost all the Nintendo games in America from Nintendo adding the third parties. So what he used to do is he would go to Toys R Us his headquarters in New Jersey for three days. That's how long the sales call lasted. For three days, he would tell toys r us how many they were going to get of every item. It wasn't a sales call. It was sort of a I'm going to give you your allocation today. And he made a commission on every single one his house. I went to his house in Long Island. It had 11 bedrooms. And it was his home office. So like never before anyone had a home office. So like 14 people came to work there. I don't think he had a rolls, but it's something that looked like a Rolls barking. Really nice guy. Yeah. So he was my my Nintendo whisperer. And he owned a tiny piece of all the things that we did. Mostly we just got along and he understood that if Nintendo was going to become a permanent cultural force, it had to get outside of that aisle at Toys

Phil  17:02
R Us. Yeah, no, seriously worked. Yeah, I mean, that level of monopolization, the the control, all of that is still in play with Nintendo to this day. So yeah, make sense. Now, how did you choose the books you went with? Because when you look at the dates of when the books came out, versus when the games cannot, sometimes, I think Mega Man three had come out by the time Mega Man two was a book came out that sort of thing. How did you make those decisions?

Seth Godin  17:35
So the first lens is three circles can be turned into a story. Is it controlled by Nintendo? And can we get the rights from the person who does control? Right? So if it's all three of those things, it gets on the shortlist. And then the, it takes a year after you start for a book to come out. So that's some of your timing issue. But the other thing is, if I'm talking to Heitkamp at Konami, and he's nervous about his new title, give me an old title. It's backlist. Yeah. Right. And so it's much easier to do those sorts of transactions. And, you know, given how well movie novelizations had done, it wasn't that hard to persuade, they could see that movie novelizations were a thing. I had already shown that a computer game could be novelized I was giving them a chance to read the book to make sure they weren't embarrassed. I gotta tell you, none of them read the books. Or if they did, they never once gave me a not what was on their agenda.

Phil  18:39
Maybe they were just kind of like if he if he didn't, he wouldn't send us a piece of garbage or something like that. So that's pretty like I'm

Kevin Erhard  18:45
sure it's fine. It's actually that's actually a funny point, because we, we, we just talked to William C Dietz a few days ago. And he wrote the second novelization for the Halo series. And he was talking about how Bungie was very, very particular and hands on with everything that he was allowed to put in the book. And I just think it's a funny parallel because you were so ahead of the curve. This is so early days in the the concept of adapting games to books that they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's fine.

Seth Godin  19:25
I mean, I think it's part of the personality. So yeah, true. Having, you know, I helped build computer games at the beginning. And if you would want it to novelize something that I had helped build. I was going to be all over it because I was emotionally invested. Sure. But if you're, you know, some suburb of Chicago, and Konami is sitting there turning this crank that's making money. You're not in it because you deeply believe in Mega Man or whatever. You're in it because there's this spectacular market opportunity where there was a shortage. For years, and if you could just get through all the hoops. The cash register was gonna you know, a lot of these people came from the pinball machine industry or the there was a company, do you know about Handelman? No. Okay, so Handelman, this goes all the way back to when I was a spinnaker Handelman. I'm not going to make any statements at all about whether or not organized crime was above, all I'm going to say is that there are companies like Handelman, that would go to companies like Kmart, and say, these 18 feet of Kmart, we own them now. And we will pay you for these 18 feet. But you don't get a lot of say about what happens. So almost all the records that were sold a discounters, like Kmart, and mass marketers went through a company like Handelman. So you would go, if you worked for CBS Records or Spinnaker, and say, We want to get this there. And they because it's so many shelves, they could get the best possible price, they would then give some of the savings back to Kmart. And they would keep the rest. Right. And there was a long history at Toys R Us and at Kmart and places like that, that there was this middleman thing going on. So the conversations that you would have with these people weren't, this is a really good song on a really good record. They were, it's going to be on this many radio stations, right? If it's gonna be on that many radio stations, you would get the distribution, and then you'd have to go take some money and give it to disc jockeys to get on all those radio stations. So you would have credibility the next time. That's where payola came from Viola.

Kevin Erhard  21:39
Yeah. So,

Seth Godin  21:41
the I've always come at this as a creator, not as somebody who wants to play those games. But the people who are in these industries, the music, business, anything that touches the big mass merchants, or you know, the National Enquirer type cash register stuff. You just got to deal with that. And that's what they do for a living. Yeah.

Kevin Erhard  22:03
Yeah, even even even early days. And in the arcade industry. Over in Japan, there is rumors of, of Yakuza involvement with with companies like tyto, or what have you. There's always and, and, and back when pinball was banned in New York City in the 1940s, there was a there was kind of like the it was LaGuardia doing it because of of, you know, mob involvement or what have you. So there's always something there. In these types of industries. Not, it's not visible, it's always kind of looming in the shadow of that kind of thing.

Seth Godin  22:47
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I, I keep hovering around the edges of the game business, because that's where I started. And I still believe human beings changed by what they do now, what they read. And it is possible to create all sorts of really fascinating interactions on the internet now that aren't about me, if you just look at something like Wordle. You know, you can get a lot of really smart people who spend a lot of time interacting in that sort of way. And, but ever since, when I started yoyodyne, which was one of the first internet companies, we did email games online. And that was thrilling. But after I sold to Yahoo in 1999, that was sort of the end of the gaming world for me, but I started to get back into it. I thought that

Phil  23:38
was that was actually one of my questions. Do you ever think about you know how you could get back involved in it? That sort of thing?

Seth Godin  23:44
Yeah, I just, it would not be this sort of fictional world thing. Just because the overhead, it's easier now to make a blockbuster movie that it has to make a NAR, you know, multiplayer game. And that overhead makes it harder to have the kind of game design leverage that I've always been into. Yeah, right. I, the one I was playing with last year would be a blockchain enabled auction that could be run by nonprofits. And the idea is put something up for auction. It's almost priceless, right? And, you know, here we have a signed script from the first episode of Star Trek or whatever. And it's up for bids. And the starting bid is $10. To standard auction with one twist, which is the top five bidders all have to pay whatever they bid last but only the top bidder gets it.

Phil  24:42
Oh, oh, wow. Okay, so yeah,

Seth Godin  24:46
so you think about it you bid 30 bucks to just stop not now you're gonna lose 30 So you might as well bid for it and people to keep going because it's for charity but but I just love the game theory of that and get their way through it. Oh, wow,

Phil  25:03
that's interesting. Yeah. Because the the strategy changes completely at that point you've got you can't come at it from the usual auction style way.

Seth Godin  25:12
And people would be staring at you, you would get a Ferrari for $10,000. Because no one was willing to outbid you, the charity would still do fine. But the word would spread that someone got a Ferrari for $10,000 For the next auction would do even better.

Phil  25:25
That's amazing. You could almost make that a spectator sport. Yeah. I would tune in to see some high stakes stuff there.

Kevin Erhard  25:36
That is high stakes bidding, right?

Phil  25:41
How you mentioned finding your writers from you know, you have a collection of, you know, ya authors, that sort of thing. How did you choose them beyond just like they were part of a team that you knew, like, did you try to pick someone who had maybe some science fiction background for like Mega Man, for example, that sort of thing.

Seth Godin  26:00
So um, I had done a two other series. One of them, I'm really proud of, which was Walter Dean Myers, who was the most honored black children's book writer of his generation, won the Coretta Scott King award two or three times, I said to Walter, I lived in a really successfully integrated neighborhood outside of New York City and said, Walter, my neighbors are all busy reading baby sitters club in and Sweet Valley High, there are no black kids in those stories. And I said, Can I just use your name, you'll approve everything. And I'm going to make baby sitters club for black kids and kids who aren't black, but anybody who wants to read about real community, and he was great. And so we did 10 of those. And I'm really proud of how they came out. Same kind of authors, right, that the goal, the science fiction parts were came from me, I had to write a Bible that was worth turning into a book. And I loved it, because I didn't have to be on the hook for for serial commas or semicolons, and stuff like that. Right. And somebody like Peter could switch from writing sort of sisters, which was one of those to writing baby sitters club to writing one of these because what you were just good at is directly telling a story in words that were exciting for 12 year olds. And it's a skill. So I mostly the the hard part was winnowing down the people who I could know who I knew I could reliably count on to get this part of the work done. Sure. Because when you pick it one, that's no good. You don't discover it until too late. And you have to start over and mess, right? Did you

Phil  27:46
choose what books were on the if you might, if you liked this book, you might enjoy these books list?

Seth Godin  27:54
I think so. I think if you quiz me I could not remember but they were a good. I only had two employees. So if it wasn't me, I don't know.

Kevin Erhard  28:06
Yeah, I think at the end of MegaMan, two, I think it was the other suggestions included Isaac Asimov, or iRobot. And Robert Heinlein, which threw me for as Robert Heinlein.

Phil  28:19
And and how to eat Fried Worms was also in the and I was like, I've read all of these books at very different points in my life.

Seth Godin  28:29
Yeah, that sounds like my handwriting.

Phil  28:34
It actually did inspire us though, with, with our social media we like when we finish up a book, we like throwing out a suggestion box of four or five books that they might enjoy. They like the one we just finished. So we have you to thank for that very least. That's fantastic.

Seth Godin  28:50
So my tip for people who like the kinds of stuff you like, is an author named Elliot pepper, pe PE AR. And his bandwidth series will suck you in and you will never let go. It's you're going to be so grateful that I highlighted Elliot pepper for you.

Phil  29:09
Okay, okay. All right, everyone write that down. Elliot pepper. Oh, this is just look good. Okay. Now, you mentioned I also, literally officially was diagnosed with ADHD today. And you mentioned that earlier he was just

Kevin Erhard  29:26
on the phone with the psychiatrist. Yes

Phil  29:30
it's one of those things that we're like oh no, we had no idea I but I know what you mean when it comes to how certain kinds of games certain kind of books media in general can really throw you for a loop. Do you do you play games still these days or do any of them are days that

Seth Godin  29:51
I my phone I have word master which is a Scrabble analog. I have trouble watching thrilling Television. I, I can't. I internet was built for people like you and me because I look a puppy kind of thing. I also, I also need an enormous amount of discipline to be able to produce what I produce. And so I went 20 years without turning on television. And I don't go to meetings, because I just, I was was in was enervating and you know, now, thanks to streaming, I can find just like a little thing that can, you know, soothe part of my brain. But even like, I love the matrix movies so dearly, but I'll feel it for hours afterwards. Nice fast

Phil  30:43
now. So what do you what do you do to relax then if it's not too personal a question like what's what do you find works for you?

Seth Godin  30:50
I pad on my canoe on the Hudson River every day where the weather's good enough. So it's been a few months without that. And I listened to a lot of Jeff.

Unknown Speaker  30:58
Oh, that's great.

Phil  30:59
That sounds

Kevin Erhard  31:00
good. Jazz is wonderful. I was I was a in the jazz bands when I was younger. And yeah, it is. It's a wonderful musical hobby for anyone who can who can really get into it. Because it's a it's complex in a way that really suit it takes your brain places. But without too much work needed. Because of the the way the the motifs kind of move around.

Seth Godin  31:28
Yeah, and it can absorb as much of your nerdiness as you can handle.

Kevin Erhard  31:33
Exactly. Yeah, it's an infinite really deep musical shot.

Phil  31:41
We've got one, one more big one. And then I think unless Kevin, you've got any No, no, go ahead, Phil. Uh, now this kind of ties into what we've been talking about the concentration required to do what you do in research and finding you frankly, you have had a stellar career, in marketing in particular, and that sort of thing. But why don't you tell our audience a little bit about what it is that you do

Seth Godin  32:09
these jobs. My full time gig right now is I'm a volunteer leading a group that's building an almanac about carbon and climate. And it's coming out in June, there's 1800 of us in 91 countries. And it fits so many of the things that are important to me, but also my skill set. I'm in it for 11 hours a day answering in church building, and we just shipped it to the publisher last week. It's 97,000 words written by 200 Different people edited, designed, laid out. I think it's the most important thing I've ever done. But I also write a blog post every day, I do a podcast every week. I've started a bunch of companies, written 20 bestsellers. But mostly, I just am so lucky that I get to share the noise in my head on a regular basis. And people seem to appreciate it.

Phil  33:00
It's all we can hope for is

Seth Godin  33:04
there's nothing to complain about a lot of my peers from the internet age have, you know, be next to their name? I don't want to be a billionaire. I don't think they're happy. They just decided to become evil monopolists and Yep. Interesting to me.

Kevin Erhard  33:19
We we have we have very, very strong anti billionaire stance on our podcast.

Phil  33:25
Yeah, it is part of what we do. Yeah, it's about accumulation after a while isn't that it's not? It's not about being happy. Yeah. Well, Mr. Golden, thank you so much for thank you so much. Is anything that you do just then is there anything you want to plug anything?

Seth Godin  33:42
I should know. The thing I want to say is, people don't understand what it means for the two of you to show up the way you do over and over again. Not because it's your job, but because you just have something to share. And the reason that I said yes is not because I like talking about my past because I almost never do. It's because I want to honor the kind of passion that you're bringing, because this is what the internet is really actually for is to allow people who care to make things better. So I want to thank both of

Phil  34:13
you. Thank you very Thank you. It's been a privilege to talk with you sir. This has been fantastic.

Seth Godin  34:17
Thank you both can make a ruckus. Well,

Kevin Erhard  34:20
that was a heck of an interview. And Seth just basically warmed our hearts with

Phil  34:30
I'm gonna I'm going to that is going to get me through the rest of the month. Kevin like it's not only it's nice to find someone of your own tribe, but you know, kindred spirit in the geek realm is especially Yeah, good.

Kevin Erhard  34:44
Yeah, it's wonderful. And we're going to be continuing with our with our Nintendo worlds of power coverage in for the foreseeable future, but it with with a, I guess, a new perspective on how they came Be it it'll be a little bit refreshing to take another look at these but that's pretty much all we got for you today folks feel yet some some plugins that you want to

Phil  35:12
Yeah, for those of you who want to get to know Mr. Seth Godin the the ethics nine himself. You can check them out at sebts dot blog set HS dot blog. That's easy enough to remember. And follow me on Twitter at this is Seth's blog, where he is just he's throwing down all kinds of really interesting news and information and tidbits. Definitely, definitely worth taking a look at.

Kevin Erhard  35:40
Yep, and as always, if you can share, share this this episode around to your friends and family I'd say this episode and the episode with Bill deeds are pretty good intro episodes for us for just finding out where people who are just interested in the process of writing shares with the writers in your life just so they can get a little behind the scenes look. Otherwise, follow us on Twitter at pixelate pod go to our website www dot pixelate and rate us five stars on iTunes and Spotify if you have the means we would greatly appreciate it. But that is all for today's episode. Thank you and have a good night everybody.

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