Bioshock Rapture: Part 4

Merry Christmas! Part FOUR of our deep dive into Bioshock Rapture by John Shirley. Kevin and Phil continue to talk about how objectivism is, in-fact a bad thing in this episode so hold onto your butts!

It's all the pleasures all on the book side

Phil  0:03
exactly they takes what it wants uses and abuses

Kevin Erhard  0:08
it does use and abuse you know it doesn't use and abuse What's that Kevin? Hey there everybody welcome back to pixelate My name is Kevin with me as always is Phil Hello and today we're we're driving through we're taking a road trip we're taking a road trip under the water yeah rapture and if I if I got my dates right this is the last episode of the year

Phil  0:37
the last or the second to last

Kevin Erhard  0:40
Yeah, I don't know but either way Merry Christmas because it's either coming up or just past

Phil  0:45
yep yep so everyone's everyone's get one last you know helping of All I Want For Christmas Is You under your belt my friends

Kevin Erhard  0:56
before we put Maria Mariah Carey back into deep freeze please

Phil  1:02
give her she where she fucking belongs we all love that song we all love that song as

Kevin Erhard  1:11
she was in two months madness.

Phil  1:12
It's absolutely a year

Kevin Erhard  1:14
is is is it's untenable.

Phil  1:17
It's on it's unreasonable. You can't it can't be supported. It cannot be supported for many reasons. It can't be service warming.

Kevin Erhard  1:24
God damn it. You can't support Mariah Carey being unthawed for two months of the year.

Phil  1:29
Do you know how big her mouth can get she the the amount of gas she expels hitting the notes that she hits.

Kevin Erhard  1:37
It is like a void to some nether realm.

Phil  1:44
No, the flatulence of all the cows in the Midwest cannot equal the carbon dioxide that she just bleeding through the ozone layer with every and die that she puts out there even though she sings that part. But God damn it, you get my point.

Kevin Erhard  2:02
We do get your point. Yeah. So all I want for Christmas is you.

Phil  2:10
And all I want for Christmas is plasmid. A plasmid is

Kevin Erhard  2:13
the plasmid a plasmid plasmids can have a plasmid Please bless Nope.

Phil  2:21
We got lots of people love plasmids in this book. Jesus Christ.

Kevin Erhard  2:24
Oh, they love plasma and because we're in chapter 12 And we're in it's 1955 in the mists appropriately named Artemis Suites but with by the way they're described it seems like the the bunk of a military base.

Phil  2:42
Yeah, yeah, that's a very barracks

Kevin Erhard  2:44
s and it looks like a barracks.

Phil  2:47
It makes sense, because it's an apartment that has like 10 families living in

Kevin Erhard  2:51
it. Yeah. And we get it's from the point of view of a man named Sam Lutz Who is he doesn't really matter. No. No, he's he's not a main character. He's get attached. Don't get attached to anybody in Rapture because by the time the game rolls around, they're all dead. That's let's just put that out there. Yeah. Anyway, Sam lots. Sam is talking to his wife Mariska and it's most of this part is just kind of laying the foundation of God things really suck, don't they?

Phil  3:23
Yeah. And it's sad because you know, last time we had one of the most heart wrenching chapters ever with a poor down on their luck couple who were the victims of poverty and plasmids and we have the same sort of we have we have a similar setup here the difference though seems to be that the let's is actually seem to love each other. Yeah, they are lovely people. Yeah, they seem to be nice people. They're just in a bad situation. Yeah, he basically got down there to work they made it sound like the most amazing thing in the world. He worked for literally a few days and then the work was done and he got laid off. Yep. And and you know, there's no minimum wage No, nothing no safety net. So they're literally just living in the slums and he's just catching work wherever he can. But they've got like, but you kind of hope the best for them even though you shouldn't because you know, they're there. They're optimistic for the most part. He's trying to make his wife feel better. He doesn't lash out. You know, he's, he's, you know, sympathetic to how she feels. It's nice. It's really nice.

Kevin Erhard  4:33
It's nice and it gets the scene gets interrupted. Stage Left by Hey, what was the name of that? That that cartoon cat? Felix No, the one with the stage left. Oh,

Phil  4:51
oh, fuck yeah, the Hanna Barbera one? Yeah. Oh, it's like

Kevin Erhard  4:57
exits stage left. Yeah, it was worth it. It was worth it. Even even Yeah, he would always throw even at the end of his. Is it Snagglepuss Snagglepuss

Phil  5:11
Yeah, yeah. Snagglepuss that's the one that's the one.

Kevin Erhard  5:15
Yeah. Speaking of questionable queer representation Snagglepuss yeah he's basically Sandra color coded. Yeah, he's basically Sander Cohen kind of coded the same way you can't Sander Cohen is it's that very 19 like mid century, like, this is how gay men acted right type of coding that they throw on there

Phil  5:40
is I think feline Liberace which is to say, Yeah, Karachi

Kevin Erhard  5:45
Yeah. So just out of basically just outside the conversation to men hopped up on plasmid goofballs basically pick a fight with each other. Yeah. And one man basically, they're, they're just talking up a big game and one man, the one man's wife intervenes, yeah. And the other guy kills both the wife and her husband, in like, just melts them with electro bolt, their eyes melt out of their seats, pretty awful. It's pretty grotesque.

Phil  6:25
And when the one the one guy had the electricity power, and the other guys the firepower, and they're just a standoff, who's gonna win? Well, the guy who gets distracted by his poor wife isn't. And then of course, because they they had already stuck the knife in and all that was left was to twist it. Thus tearing our tender insights. Two little twin girls come to Bangkok, the Bangkok twins come out and it's that's their mother and father who have just been so horribly destroyed by plasmids, and basically to the god do the whole, like, poking the dead relative mother, father, like, Oh, God, like little foot in Land Before Time. Just yeah. Why won't you get up you are treated to the whole realm of

Kevin Erhard  7:20
the whole thing. And that scene ends with two little girls, all alone now. orphans, two little sisters.

Phil  7:34
I understood that reference.

Kevin Erhard  7:36
I get that reference. Yeah, yeah. Insert Captain America here. Exactly. That and then we cut back to Fontaine futuristics. And there's a problem. Too few sea slugs.

Phil  7:50
How many times have I said that? We don't have enough God damn. How many slugs?

Kevin Erhard  7:55
How many times have you opened your cabinet and said, Ah, too few sea slug? Well,

Phil  7:59
the sea slugs. They are out. And so they're basically working on a new project where they're using a little girl to create a new base for the plasmids. And so they so they don't have to use the sea slugs. And Fontane very reasonably, I think says why don't we? Why don't we start breeding the sea slugs? And apparently that'll take years to set up. And I'm not convinced about that one. Unless you know something I do I don't about these these sea slugs. metab.

Kevin Erhard  8:37
I mean, don't you just throw slugs into a thing? And eventually more slugs come out. They

Phil  8:41
just yeah, that's kind of how it works. You throw them in a jar, you shake the jar, and then you got more slugs. It's metabolism. Jesus reproductive reproduction is what I meant to say. But yeah, yeah. So but doesn't matter. Who cares? They are whatever. Basically, they found out that it's better for the little girls can handle the plasmids better than

Kevin Erhard  9:06
little campy and little boys. It can't be adults. Yes. B little girls. Something about little girls, little girls.

Phil  9:15
Every day. Yeah. And so that's so we've got a whole thing about them using these little girls, too, as a new basis for carrying the plasmids. They even bring up the Babcock twins. There'll be there'll be you know, that was no coincidence that they use them for that one. And you're you're just about to think to yourself, Is this too horrific to actually work in this world? Just when Reggie one of Fontaine's guys rushes in and he's been shot in a timing yeah, great timing to keep you from thinking too hard about what the fuck is going on. But He basically he's been shot he doesn't know who shot him or why. He's assuming it's some, you know, plasmid, you know, addict or something like that. But people are just out there getting shot. He says there have been turrets set up everywhere, which is another reference to the game. Yeah, to help protect property, which they don't say that outright. But let's face it, that's what those terms are there for. And so it's it's basically just an interrupt introduction to this new violent world where, you know, there's crime out there all over the place. And the only response to it that Ryan has come up with is to put more weaponry our audit

Kevin Erhard  10:43
automated machine guns out there. Yeah. It's it's basically, the literally trying to fight fire with fire is, is the idea of Andrew Ryan. Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's basically, that's basically that scene. It's, and also it's, it's the this is where Fontaine is basically, like, Well, how about we start an orphanage? And they they, because it the orphanage has been alluded to a few scenes earlier, where it's like, well, would he's Andrew Ryan wouldn't start one unless it was for profit. Because there's a need for one because a lot of workers have been killed and left parent left there. You know, kids, they're parentless.

Phil  11:28
And we do we find out the way that someone here can actually make a level of profit off of an orphanage, and that is by being able to have this easy supply of little girls to turn into little sisters to be a base for these plasmids. So yeah, he gets to look like he is doing good work for the community. While you know, just furthering his own gains.

Kevin Erhard  11:59
Yeah, yeah. And then we come back to Andrew Ryan and he is talking to Mr. Stanley pool. Yeah. And he's asking about a this top side character, Johnny. Johnny top side,

Phil  12:17
which is my porn name. Oh, incidentally, enough. Back in the day, it was known as Johnny Thompson top

Kevin Erhard  12:23
side. It's good to know.

Phil  12:26
Yeah, yeah. Google me coward. Are you afraid of what you might find?

Kevin Erhard  12:36
So this is the thing about Johnny topside is that it kind of comes up out of nowhere. Yeah. And I don't know, is it a reference to like Atlas, or any of the stuff Fontaine is doing?

Phil  12:53
I don't know. It is. I

Kevin Erhard  12:55
mean, I've read through the rest of this section. And yeah, I don't remember seeing giant topside being mentioned again.

Phil  13:01
It is a rant. I don't know. I don't know if you guys are listening in you know, if this is a ref, please let us know. I wasn't sure either. The only the best I get the best guests I could make is it's this legend of it. Clearly. What they say is it's this legend of some guy who's he's become a legend in a way where he's supposedly from the outer world and he's infiltrated the plague

Kevin Erhard  13:26
smuggled himself into rapture, right? And man or something like that.

Phil  13:31
Exactly. And it just feeds Ryan's paranoia. And it's just another thing to feed Ryan's paranoia and it kind of leads to him finally just crossing the line officially. And basically ordering that he wants lamb disappeared, essentially,

Kevin Erhard  13:51
center and Persephone, which is they haven't really talked about what Persephone is quite a penal colony for Yeah, yeah. Persephone is basically their, the way they the the place they put people and, and they say, yeah, just take the kid, take your kid, give it to a woman named Grace Holloway to just look after. And that'll, that'll be that. That's that ties up that loose end in Ryan's mind.

Phil  14:20
Right. And so I'm not sure I'm not sure if this is meant to reference something larger. Or it's just another thing.

Kevin Erhard  14:27
Yeah. So lamb is big in Bioshock. Two, okay. Is she is I haven't played on Bioshock. Two I played maybe like an hour and a half or something. But lamb is is positioned as basically the antagonist of Bioshock. Two. And there's references. So in the book, they talk about the debates in Bioshock. Two towards the beginning you find audio logs of debates between Ryan and lamb, public stuff like that. So So since this seems to try to tie all three games together at times. And mostly Bioshock. One and two.

Phil  15:06
Yeah, this came out before infinite, I believe. Yeah. But not but not so early that they couldn't have given couldn't have. Right. And so I mentioned Comstock and stuff, which is a sure reference, right.

Kevin Erhard  15:19
So I think the most I gonna say, oh, yeah, if it's if we don't necessarily pick up on it. My my go to is, I guess it might be in Bioshock. Two, maybe is because I know, I know, lamb and her daughter figure into Bioshock. Two, to the extent of which I don't quite know slash remember. Because I haven't beaten the game yet. So I, but yeah, I haven't figured it's, it's foreshadowing to something that happens later. Sure. Okay. Well, that makes sense, which I would say and I'll stop here to mention, that's probably the only weakness that I really, the one of the only gripes I have with the book is that some of it feels like whereas Far Cry absolution, for example, and even Halo fall of reach, you didn't need to have played anything of those games in order to grasp it. And I feel like some of what it some of the scenes in this book are super well written, but then they also have the

Phil  16:32
I was just gonna say essentially the same thing I can deal with the occasional wink towards the audience. But I will say this, these, it feels like they get a lot of references out in a very short amount of time here. Sure. It's right here in this area that we're reading. There's a whole cluster of them all in a row. That felt a little rushed to me. But yeah, yeah, it's it's still, you know, quality writing, but I think that that's, that is absolutely a weakness that

Kevin Erhard  17:08
we've run out and it still might come through and pay off in part three, but I'm just saying as of right now, it just feels like more of a wink and a nod rather than naturally in the line of the story. Yeah. So we get we finally get our first introduction to Spider split spider. splicers, my second least favorites anime show BioShock Oh, they're so tough. They are so effective because they're up on the ceiling, man. Yeah, yeah. And number one, the one I hate the most is the Houdini splicers. We're also going to run which we're also going to the book is also going to talk about Rails.

Phil  17:54
Absolutely, yeah, the spider slicers bill our dear friend Bill is finding out about spider slicers as we are in this book, there are a couple of them literally crawling on the outside of a tram threatening the people inside of them

Kevin Erhard  18:11
are just like poking their head down through the ceiling of the train. Yeah,

Phil  18:15
yeah trying to get in and and the tram is moving away. Like they're they're just and it's like Bill and was with him. But they're just like literally watching this tram with these horrible spiders, Blazers on it, move away. They're not there to help. They're just observing. And as the tram gets further and further away you hear a gunshot from inside of the tram and like basically as it disappears in the darkness all fucking hell breaks loose. Yeah, and they just kind of move on. They're like, well, that's sucks. And

Kevin Erhard  18:50
yeah, meanwhile, meanwhile, this is all happening. greevey and Bill are having a discussion about whether charity is communist or not. Yeah, because Ryan's opened a charity is open a house for the poor.

Phil  19:05
Yeah. And so they're kind of like they're kind of discussing whether or not this is a good thing. You know, you're finding out how much of a true believer either of them are.

Kevin Erhard  19:15
Yeah, I love it. Because it's like this, this deep discussion about what about objective as political theory set against literal mutant people climbing along trains? Yeah, and threatening people with their hooks.

Phil  19:34
Yeah, if you can listen to this, if you if you read the discussion, they're having these political discussions that they're having. Just try very hard to remember to imagine screaming innocent people in a tram and to horrifying drug addled monsters with hooks, crawling along the outside of the tram while they're having this civil discussion about politics debate me calm Word. And it's got to and it's got a great line in there. And I've referenced this before, something a friend of mine said, he said, Bill's talking about the poor. And how maybe they're trying to figure out whether what the what's the end game here? Why is he doing the charities? And greevey says a, maybe his own little army army of the poor. And Bill says he'll have no shortage of poor to draw on Artemis sweets and poppers dropper stuffed with blokes out of work. And if they work, they can still feel crowded and underpaid. Not everyone can start their own business. And if they do, who will clean the toilets? Yeah, which is that is that it's such a simple thing to say. It's so simple, but in but in a nutshell, it tells you what the issue with these grandiose plans are. And it's like you know it, you know, because because that's, that's the alluring thing with objectivism and ein Rand and everything like that, especially if you're, as I've said before, a young man, especially who who happens to quietly or not so quietly, believe a little too much in their own greatness with a capital G. Yeah. And so these fun phrases like it's not it's a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow. It's very intoxicating. Who could say no to that? Right? Say no to that could

Kevin Erhard  21:25
say no to that, except when the sweat of their own brow is not. They're not getting anything for the sweat of their own brow No. Like that. You're like, yeah, they're entitled only to the sweat of their own brow, according to Andrew Ryan, right? Which is not they can buy food with

Phil  21:43
right, not everyone can be great. And not everyone should be great. In those terms. By the way, I don't I don't go in for the idea of great men with. Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Erhard  21:53
It's like that, that the idea exists. I think. I think when you talk about great men, there is there are people who are exceptional at particular things, right. But I think the great man is like a fallacy that leads to the like the Elon Musk bootlickers. You know, the I believe that that this guy that Elon Musk is a great man. And he's not a great man. He's right place right time. Well, he had money typically. Yeah, he specifically, you know, Pay Pal, the Tesla to, to, you know, and he's he went from $50 billion to $330 billion over the course of the pandemic, the man is on track to be the first trillionaire ever. Yeah, it's disgusting.

Phil  22:35
It is it's foul. And on and on an even more simplistic note, the notion that he is somehow more valuable or or or more deserving of happiness and quote, unquote, the sweaters own brow than the man who cleans his toilets is wrong.

Kevin Erhard  22:57
It is wrong. Correct. It's so wrong. It's laughable? Yes. Yeah, he has his $330 billion. To put that into perspective, you could work you could get paid. Like a million dollars every year of your life. Yeah. You will still not get to a billion dollars.

Phil  23:23
No. No, you could, you could have the lifespan of a Tolkien elf, and never make that much money.

Kevin Erhard  23:32
There's so many absurd ways I've read of like sit to wait to put a billion dollars into a sense of scale one. This man has $330 billion. And it's it's it's bullshit like people in this book. And this book does a good job shining the light on them. Yeah. And other other works of art have done a good job shining light on them that believe in this fallacy of quote unquote, great men. That just rake in profit. And it's theirs because they're at the top. Yeah. And, and as we, we have arranged everything in our society to funnel that upwards and believe yes, they are at the top.

Phil  24:20
They and they deserve to be there. They just

Kevin Erhard  24:22
they deserve it. Yeah. And it. It is. It's really gross. And

Phil  24:32
we're a nation with Stockholm Syndrome. It's really you know, it's really what it comes down to.

Kevin Erhard  24:38
We are a nation with stockholder syndrome. Oh, shit.

Phil  24:42
God damn, are we good? Ah, Adam, you know who you know who you are. I don't think we need to talk too much about great men, because I think I'm looking at two of them. Oh shit. Moment.

Kevin Erhard  25:04
Oh. Velma agrees

Phil  25:06
Velma does Yeah, she would. Saucy little sweater wear

Kevin Erhard  25:11
and minx. So does Baby Baby Yoda.

Phil  25:15
I think it's kind of funny. It looks like baby Yoda is being censored out. When it's just this green wobbly thing you're like, Oh, what is

so and while these two men are having this discussion, a plasmid riddled addict speaks for many people in the audience and threatens them by using her powers to fire a wrench at Bill. Yeah. And and threatens them. She's, she's, she's, uh, tell him to go back where they came from. And although Ryan's little puppets, yeah, yeah. And finally, fires using the telekinesis ability fires a screwdriver at greavy where it buries itself in his chest,

Kevin Erhard  26:11
right into the chests. Dies blessing that is a picture wrap on greevey goodbye to which Bill says Jesus greevey

Phil  26:21
J scruffy it's kind of sounds like he's blaming greavy it's like, hey, hey, why

Kevin Erhard  26:27
didn't you get out of the way the screwdriver and

Phil  26:29
ask for this? Finally brings us back to Ryan's office bill. Yeah. Is there?

Kevin Erhard  26:38
Bill is there he is.

Phil  26:41
He's kind of frustrated because Ryan is kind of cutting him out of certain things. He's not allowed in certain areas.

Kevin Erhard  26:47
And yeah, he's not he hasn't been allowed. He doesn't even know. He doesn't even know what Persephone is right? He hasn't been allowed over there. And he's like, and, and Bill is like, Hey, I'm, I'm the dude who make sure that shits not imploding. Right. How could I not see a place? Yeah.

Phil  27:07
Right. And we do eventually, we basically eventually find out that Ryan has not been so keen on Bill over a specific moment. Because he's been he's debated. He's been debating lamb, and he just got sick of it, apparently, and went ahead and had her jailed. Yeah, under the idea that she planted the bomb that happened in the last episode. But you know, and he doesn't want to make a martyr of her. So he isn't prosecuting her, or going through any sort of judicial notion. He's just disappeared her and he thinks that bill is pretty much responsible for this because Bill convinced him to leave lamb alone with his marketplace of ideas.

Kevin Erhard  27:53
Yeah. Yeah, he blames bill so hard and Bill is like, it's like Fox builds like he can't just disappear people though. You gotta like due process and Ryan's like oh, well, that would just draw people to her cause she just has to vanish You know, right there so that's

Phil  28:13
we get a little Andrew Stalin here Yeah little little Andrew Stalin and do find out the details on Persephone that this penal colony like part penal colony part mental institution

Kevin Erhard  28:27
yeah yeah and I you know, what is interesting is at the beginning of the section of this scene is the way Bill figures out that there is a Persephone is because the of the way like the way the airflow is coming through the pipes. He's like, there is a there is something in the air is going somewhere that I don't know where it goes, like

Phil  28:52
that is so funny. Yeah, I forgot about that. Like

Kevin Erhard  28:56
he like whips out his like engineering, engineering, math smarts, that like there's there's a drop in pressure, because there's another part of rapture that I don't know about. Right.

Phil  29:09
And that and that actually is some fucking genius shit to like, think about that kind of detail. Right? Of course, right now bill is also thinking that eventually if he doesn't watch his shit, he might end up being in person. Yeah,

Kevin Erhard  29:25
he's he is on his on thin ice. Yeah,

Phil  29:28
so he's still but he's still insanely optimistic. Like he still believes that he can fix this.

Kevin Erhard  29:35
He believes in the greatness of Andrew Ryan.

Phil  29:36
Yes. Sort of, kind of an Orion with his help. That's what you run into a lot. You know, when when these people they it's almost as if people don't get the lesson of we shouldn't put so much stock in individual people. They don't get that lesson. Instead, they say, you know, they're really great, especially when it's plus me, you know, especially if When I'm Lieutenant great man so that cuts us to lamb.

Kevin Erhard  30:06
Yeah, Simon Wales and and Sophia lamb have a have a little meeting at your Stephanie they let Simon in even though in the previous section Ryan's like Yeah, I think it's Simon Wales who's like the turncoat, Ron they let Simon in to talk to her. And he is full lock stock and barrel in on on on lamb

Phil  30:31
totally. She is a she is like lamb is part Mother Jones and part Mother Teresa. There is a there is a there is obviously the red UI this is this is where it gets weird for me and I haven't played BioShock two, I'm all for equal opportunity on like, displaying the horrors of certain, you know, ideological notions. But I don't recognize I recognize the idea of Ryan and that fanatic. But lamb is kind of this weird combination of the red union Unionist kind of person and a religious fanatic. Yeah, which doesn't really match especially if you happen to if you're, I mean, no matter who you are like whether you are communist sympathizer, or if you're extreme right, and you hate the commies part of the reason you hate the commies is because apparently they want to kill God. Sure, yeah. It's kind of a weird combination. She

Kevin Erhard  31:36
it is a combination and it's like, you know what it is, is I feel like they had BioShock one where you have antagonists like Andrew Ryan who are pro you know, the objectivism and and you know, no gods only men and all that stuff. And they're like, well, what's the mirror of that? And that's like, a manual communism. But yeah, yeah, belief in a greater power

Phil  32:06
exists, but, you know, that kind of that exists, but on small scales, you're talking Yeah, be communes. Right? Yeah. Talking about anything that's ever been done on a large scale.

Kevin Erhard  32:20
Other thing is and I might

Phil  32:22
again I guess, full objectivism has never been done on a full scale but

Kevin Erhard  32:26
right. My, my thought process is it feels a little both sides he

Phil  32:34
if very much does Yes.

Kevin Erhard  32:36
It's like It's like they they didn't want to go too hard into critiquing the the objectivism libertarian right type stuff. Yeah, without positing of like, oh, but the communists are just are also just as bad. And we are kind of developing that with lamb.

Phil  32:58
Right. And there's and there's room for criticism on anything. Yeah, you've been this feels You're right. This is it's, it's it's on a level that like is so extreme that it's like, this doesn't really fit. This isn't really a thing. Yeah, it doesn't really it doesn't

Kevin Erhard  33:13
fit. And that was I think that was my issue. As I got started getting into Bioshock. Two, it was like, okay, yeah, it feels a little weird, because they're backing off really hard against the like, it feels like there was a really strong core message of the first one. And then the second one, it's like, oh, we're backing off really hard for that.

Phil  33:37
Yeah, it feels like they didn't want to be accused of taking either side. Sure. Which I think the quality of, of one game over the other kind of shows you what side they were on. But yeah,

Kevin Erhard  33:54
yeah. And I'll say this BioShock two combat is is better. Like it's, it's a little bit tighter, and it feels a little bit more modern compared to the first one. But in terms of writing, I think it which is where, you know, Bioshock buttered its bread.

Phil  34:11
Yeah, right. Yeah. That's interesting. So yeah, so we're left with lamb essentially, like it's a weird little in addiction, kind of,

Kevin Erhard  34:23
yeah, he's like his Wales, Simon becomes like John the Baptist. Yeah, this instance. Yeah,

Phil  34:29
She blesses him. For all intents and purposes. She lets him know that she thinks that she has gotten permission to be able to do therapy for the prisoners, and in doing that, she'll be able to start an uprising, because all the people who are going to be there. This is a good point. This is this is something that anybody who studied Russian history, for example, knows anything about the gulags and those kind of political jails. You're wondering like why did you put all these people together lay all they have to all they have time for is lifting weights and exchanging notes.

Kevin Erhard  35:08
Right? That's yeah, no, it doesn't make sense. Yeah.

Phil  35:12
So she's planning on some sort of uprising at that point. Right. And that brings us to chapter 1319 56. We find RAM shorter here.

Kevin Erhard  35:23
We move forward a year. We were in 55 for a long time. Yeah, that that went from like 47 to 54. Pretty quickly. We were in 55 for for quite a quite a spell there. And now we're at the rapture detention, which is not Persephone. You know, you know, they

Phil  35:41
mentioned though they've mentioned the detention before.

Kevin Erhard  35:46
detention is regular crimes, right, like murder and people you go to detention?

Phil  35:51
Yeah, the Persephone is more of a political

Kevin Erhard  35:54
political person. Got it? Alright, so we saw the chapter. Yeah. Sullivan,

Phil  35:59
Sully, he. They've been they've. They've been hearing the stories of a homicidal splicer. Who's been using new black market plasmids. That might be the most dangerous plasmids of all. They can teleport

Kevin Erhard  36:17
us. Yeah. The Houdini's the Houdini's? Yeah. So

Phil  36:20
we get our first impression of one of these guys. Basically, immediately they've got I forgot the story. The guy like basically was found he cuts a woman's head off clean off. Yeah,

Kevin Erhard  36:33
her her head cut off her body, her body you get me sliced off just under the chin slick as a whistle. Brunette. Might have been a pretty woman. I think maybe I saw this chippy dancing over at the strip join fort frolic. Well, this splicer he's kind of squeezing her head to his chest he looked like a kid hugging a baby doll and you sawing logs this guy snoring Pat Cavendish gets there and get some cough tries to wake him up but the guys to sack out So Patrick get some help brings a son of bitch up here but I'm going to sell 17 Over there we got the broads head in the freezer case you want idea? Which is like you know law and order Yeah.

Phil  37:15
Total on order tight That's exactly

Kevin Erhard  37:18
it is the opening is the opening pre credits Law and Order scene.

Phil  37:23
I convinced that before every Sullivan chapter should be opened with John John Tony it Yeah, so they've gotten the

Kevin Erhard  37:31
rapture criminal justice system

Phil  37:35
it's view Rapture. But they they so they got the guy he's he was just killed the woman passed out and they've got him they got him in the cell. And they're they're discussing this and then suddenly the guy starts teleporting around them just mocking them and

Kevin Erhard  37:53
he's not he's not doing anything but just like teleporting around.

Phil  37:58
No, and they can't get up and it's actually a really great action scene. They're just these these guys who are armed to the teeth, who are basically powerless and one of them actually shoots one of the other.

Kevin Erhard  38:11
Yeah, there's a ricochet and Harker one of the one of the constables gets shot by it

Phil  38:17
right like that's they they are just powerless to get to stop this guy. And but eventually, between one guy with a shotgun another guy with Thompson gun, they managed to take him out, but not until like pure chaos has ensued. And this is just one guy on these plasmids. So yeah, you know, people are really fucked at this point.

Kevin Erhard  38:42
Yeah. And so you know, Harker Harkers down, he's bleeding out and yet basically, they they end up getting them they have he, I think his his shotgun blasts.

Phil  38:59
He was like, he got he got he got riddled with with shotgun and the car Laski.

Kevin Erhard  39:05
Yeah Carlos gad clipped him good with the shotgun and summer as part of the Tommy Gun burst Rick Shea down the quarter. Maybe the steel walls hadn't been a good idea. Because the bullets are just bouncing all over the place.

Phil  39:20
Yeah, it's it's just it's just everything goes to shit. Yeah, no time and he was completely unarmed.

Kevin Erhard  39:27
And Karloff ski says this is a whole new how you say it's from baseball. And Sullivan nods a whole new ball games. Kind of tongue tone.

Phil  39:43
It's been very, I mean, that's like from beginning to end. That is a very law and order. Kind of set a dialogue

Kevin Erhard  39:51
in the rapture criminal justice system. There is one branch order. That's all these are their stories. doo doo doo doo doo doo

Phil  40:10
Kevin, do you know what's been missing from my life? In the past episode or two?

Kevin Erhard  40:15
Some some Dick Wolf.

Phil  40:18
In a manner of speaking, yes. Okay, a new, another super gay musical Lissandra Cohen.

Kevin Erhard  40:26
Oh, yeah, we haven't had one of those in a while have we heavens? Yeah,

Phil  40:31
thankfully we're about to go to.

Kevin Erhard  40:34
Thankfully we are about to go to one and this is a Is this the one that's a CO production with Steinmann

Phil  40:40
he is. Oh yes, yeah, yeah.

Kevin Erhard  40:44
Five Six surgeon clearly has some tendencies to make art. It is a

Phil  40:49
super gay musical clearly dedicated to Slaanesh. It is Fontane. He's going to the show because you get the impression. There really isn't a whole lot of entertainment. Sure down there. Like they're all about making their own everything which I respect on a certain level. But they've only got the one dude. And so Fontane, who has no interest in San Diego and doesn't like your shows. It's never like to shows, but it's something to do. And so the only thing to do so he's there. Yeah. So he goes to see the show. And it's just it's Wow.

Kevin Erhard  41:28
Yeah, it's interesting. He ends up he uses the opportunity of the show happening on stage to basically flirt with Diane McClintock. Right. Is Andrew Ryan's number one gal is now and Diane basically is like, yeah, I read dick. Right when he when he insinuates that that she's dumb or something like that. She's like, No readings are a little bit. Yeah, yeah. He's He's, he's doing the Dennis.

Phil  41:57
Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Any anybody? He but he effectively flirts with her, basically, you know, tells her he's you know, he's like, Well, if Brian never shows up, she's waiting on me. I mean, ever shows up. I'd love to be your, your arm candy for the evening, if you will. And then Ryan does show up. But it's after the plays.

Kevin Erhard  42:25
It's after the players. The play is done. Yeah. And the play actually gave Fontane an idea. Yeah. He got an idea from from this, this little play that Dr. Steinman and Sandra Cohen put on and it's it goes raptures, the hope of the world declared over a picture of Andrew Ryan holding the world on his shoulder Andrew Ryan as Atlas Yeah, looking to see that no one was watching Frank Fontaine tore the poster down. Now that that is foreshadowing Hey there, Frankie foreshadowing

Phil  43:05
Exactly. Oh, yeah. So we get his interest in that what is he talking about? Well, we're gonna find out we're gonna find out soon enough. Yeah. After that we get a real quick section where it's Bill recording his thoughts on rapture and its downfall like basically and also thinking to himself, gee, it might be the dumbest thing in the world that I am making physical evidence of the fact that I don't want 100% believe in Ryan's vision that should be an issue maybe an issue at some point might be so but that's that's that cuts to a special meeting of the Council.

Kevin Erhard  43:48
There's been some murders some murders going on. And here's the thing is that it doesn't it doesn't become an emergency meeting for murderers until it's in the upper atrium. Which is where there are the rich folk

Phil  44:02
yeah they don't care about the murders anywhere else but they happen to state they started to bleed no pun intended into where the the rich folk where

Kevin Erhard  44:11
the money is. So there's a there's only six people show had shown up this time they were gathered around the oval conference table in their ornate gold trim little room near the top of the highest air scraper in Rapture. And Bill Sullivan Anton Kincaid, Ryan Rizzo and greevey greavy normally would have been there except he got very killed by a screwdriver.

Phil  44:39
Was he suffering from a slight case of murder? Yeah, he is. He is he's, uh, he's, he's out to lunch. So they've also they also have some so they basically they're discussing these plasmids, and Ryan's a great solution. Lucian is that he's going to get into the plasmid business. He

Kevin Erhard  45:03
says he's gonna make the standard plasmid. Exactly.

Phil  45:06
The solution is simple. Ryan enterprises now in the plasmid Miss business, a better product will draw people in, and they'll buy one that doesn't affect their mind. So he glanced at Bill, thinking he looked weary and troubled, what do you think, Bill? And Bill says, seriously?

Like, that's your plan. This plan is instead of banning something or outlawing something, which is not allowed,

Kevin Erhard  45:35
or not allowed, is not going to ban it, because that's a law and you're just gonna make

Phil  45:39
better stuff, higher quality stuff, and people will buy that instead. And that's why McDonald's has been out of business for about 5060 years. Sure. Because people when better quality is offered to them, they will always go with better quality. They

Kevin Erhard  45:56
pass by McDonald's, and they pull into Ruth's Chris That's right. Every, every day at lunch every day at lunch every day. And yeah, it's just better. And it's funny as Bill because, you know, the Darwinism is often brought up, you know, and Bill is like, because Kincaid is talking about how, like, oh, well clearly these sea slugs are just awakening, like a mutation that happened in humanity's past. It's not like it's giving them humanity new abilities. And Bill Bill responds, it's a bit dodgy of an omen that in it Kincaid. I mean, if these mutations existed in the past, and they didn't make it didn't work out then might not work out for rapture then, and then Kincade like, well, there's something to that, like, they don't exist anymore, because they kind of Darwin doubt

Phil  46:51
like, right. Like they weren't, they're not good. Like, I can't believe I'm a plumber. How am I the person I think of this Oh, my God.

Kevin Erhard  47:05
But they kind of just breezed past it

Phil  47:07
and move on fast because there's money to be made. The next line is

Kevin Erhard  47:10
but Ryan's right.

Phil  47:14
And the next thing that they need to do is they are going there they start planning out a raid on Fontane. They basically believe they have enough evidence to suggest that Fontane is indeed the One who is smuggling everything. The Forbidden Bibles, the the the products, the services, all that good shit, that they believe they have enough evidence to procure it, it is montane doing this. Yep. So we end that section.

Kevin Erhard  47:47
And also that Fontane and Sue Chang are using pheromones potentially to control the splicers

Phil  47:53
Yes, yes, they do. That's which is interesting. Interesting

Kevin Erhard  47:58
theory we The next section is probably the most I don't know I guess. Yeah. I'm trying to think of what movie I'm thinking this kind of reminds me of it is it is the most drug addled yeah section of the book.

Phil  48:17
This is this is to me, what? Your mom this is basically like a chapter or chapter section of the book that illustrates everything that your mom assumed would happen to you if you ever took hallucinogenic drugs. Yes. It makes me think a little bit of the origin story of oh, what's his name? He was in Hanoi in Hannibal Lecter. Hannibal Lecter his friend is who he the rich kid that he got him really, really high and dropping his face off.

Kevin Erhard  48:54
Yeah, yeah. It's like verkar or something like that.

Phil  49:02
Something like that. Yeah. It made me think of that. This this season. Stuff for the squeamish. It starts backstage. After the sander Cohen. Musical and amazing.

Kevin Erhard  49:15
Mason verger.

Phil  49:17
Mason verger. Thank you. That is it. That is it. Yeah. We start with Sander Cohen and one of his little boy toys. Yep. And and they're gonna do some Adam and it's the first time that the boy toy in question has ever done Adam. But they've basically done every other drug known to man. So he's, he's not thrilled about the notion. He's also kind of nervous though, because Sander as he says, always took everything to crazy extremes. Yeah, for that last little drunken trip into Arcadia dancing naked with a Souter nines forcing a teenage boy to have sex with an octopus. They were all lucky to not be in the rapture detention. cells that gotten out one step ahead of the constables. So, you know, as we talked about before, it's problematic that Sandra Cohen is one of our only queer coded characters. And he is, but he's more than just queer. This is not being queer. This is this is a level of libertine extremism. Yeah. As I said, He's clearly occultist to see is

Kevin Erhard  50:26
he is like, like, Dionysus is like, bro. Yeah.

Phil  50:32
Take a step back. But it also does lead to our first ever first person view of what it's like to take Adam.

Kevin Erhard  50:43
Yeah, because basically the guy disassociate. Yeah, like he thinks that he's in a movie.

Phil  50:48
He thinks he's in it, but he also thinks he's watching.

Kevin Erhard  50:52
Yeah, it's weird. It's a weird, it's a weird chapter of like this associated violence, where Sandra Cohen, he, he basically, Sandra Cohen has this trip ditch of, of victims, and he tortures all of them to death, basically. And the guy is like freezing them, but he's not he thinks he's watching himself, freeze them, and that it's a movie, but he's actually doing it. And it's just like, it is really grotesque what Sandra does to each person, right? And then he freezes them and takes a photo of them at like their moment of death.

Phil  51:29
Right? And it's only at the very end that this guy thinks that he realizes that there are people who are dying, that this isn't a movie. It's a really, really grotesque scene. It's a it's a very effective, very well written a really, really, honestly a real highlight of the chapter really horrific.

Kevin Erhard  51:51
It's it's so horrific. And it's yeah, it's it's a tough read. Honestly, it is absolutely. The last line. Basically Martin Martin fan, he was drawn to nod that his hands went easily to him. He was a very pretty young man, after all, Cohen took out an elegant little straight razor. And it just kind of like trails off. And that's the end of the scene. Yeah, it's like, it's basically like, you know, you don't need to know any more of what's going on. It's like, and it continues. Yeah,

Phil  52:27
I think we all know what's happening next. Yeah. It's yeah, it's it's it's a it's, it's, it's full it is strained at the

Kevin Erhard  52:38
most it is basically I would say it's like a torture porn scene. Very much sure. It's it's it's kind of it's kind of in the genre of like hostel or you know, something like that where it's like these people are just being straight up tortured by by sander and his and Martin Yeah, and Martin is just this boy toy kind of guy who you know, he's a he's a himbo that was just there for some fun and is now complicit in torturing and murdering three people that at some point displeased Sander in some my way. That's the thing.

Phil  53:24
These aren't random victims. He's picked up these are like one of them. Is this in an assistant of Sanders and they're all people who have displeased him. So it's like he is meeting out punishment as if he were gone, right? Yeah, it's Yeah, so it's not just random violence. It's vengeance in his eyes. Yeah. Speaking of well adjusted into the well

Kevin Erhard  53:50
adjustment people J S Stein men we get back to Steinmann he's he is uh, he's experimenting on somebody that person is dead now but was possibly alive was it was possibly alive when he started I think they were alive when when he started

Phil  54:09
Yeah, it says it's the someone's ringing his doorbell and it says damn them Why won't they leave genius to be genius Stein and muttered hanging the detached face complete with her nose and eyebrows over the lamp beside the operating table and they let you know this he's been he's basically been paying for splicers that he can yeah experiments

Kevin Erhard  54:34
this guy is is ed ed Gien you know very much very much at being even though again only maybe killed it like two people like in terms of the experimentation with slicing things. Yeah, that's That's

Phil  54:46
it definitely brings that to my where Sandra Cohen we've got kind of more of a Ted Bundy gesture Dahmer kind of thing. Yeah, definitely Jeffrey Dahmer rather. Right. So he, this is actually kind of funny scene

Kevin Erhard  55:01
because montane is like Fontane is like there. And he was like, I want plastic surgery but none of your fucked up kinds.

Phil  55:08
Right. He knows exactly what he's doing. He knows. First off, first off, Steinman goes out there. And it's Fontane and his posse. And, and, and Simon's like, what, and they're all staring at him because he's covered in blood. Because he's just he is losing it. He is like, he does not know what's right and wrong anymore. And he goes, and he kind of like goes, Oh, right. Could I'm working on something and they're like, sure, sure. Yeah. And then font dates it's fun tank tells him he wants plastic surgery. Basically, he wants to switch bases with one of his crease base off. He wants to reenact that and and dance around in a priests costume and grab some chorus girls, but yeah, that's all I remember. It but but yeah, he makes it point to big like, I know what you fucking do. I'll give you all the atom you want. But you're getting it afterwards because I don't want you to go fucking rogue on me when you're high.

Kevin Erhard  56:07
You're gonna you're gonna be sober when you do my surgery. Right.

Phil  56:11
Right. It's just so funny. It's like Fontane is so he he wants something and he's going to get it Goddamnit but he's on but it's like, he's still willing to let this guy cut him up. Like I'd be like, well, I guess I better come up with a better plan. Yeah, if this is my only plastic surgeon. But so so he beat tells him that's the plan and and Stein agrees. He says yeah, sure. We got a deal.

Kevin Erhard  56:37
Yeah. And if you mentioned it to anybody, you'll find yourself going headfirst out an airlock without a diving suit. Red flags like Fontane says

Phil  56:48
and we know Fontaine will do it. He will do

Kevin Erhard  56:51
it like that's not a that's he is he is going to follow up. It's an idle threat. That's no Fontane only gives threat threats.

Phil  56:59
No he gives real threats no matter what. And that brings us to chapter 14 Say what

Kevin Erhard  57:05
you will about about Frank Fontaine but at least it's an ethos.

Phil  57:12
Fontaine ism, I'm Danish. So we are now with Bill Sullivan and a whole team of Ryan's thugs and they are getting armed. And they are about to go raid Fontaine's smuggler.

Kevin Erhard  57:27
This is the this is the arm up scene, you know there Yeah, yeah, the guns are going in the right.

Phil  57:34
You get you get the whole you get the close ups of all the wood grain on the stock from the rifle, whatever. Yeah, yeah, they're getting all set up. And they're they're heading on down to the wharf area where fucking Fontaine's got a submarine. Which I don't know why I was surprised. Of course, if they've got a city under the sea,

Kevin Erhard  57:57
and there's gonna be submarines. You've got to have submarine but I

Phil  57:59
was still kind of like a fucking submarine. Cool. So digging it. Yeah. And just as they are making their way down there, they see they see Fontaine's man, Reggie, down there. Yeah. And just as they're about to make their way down to the docks to throw down the law, so to speak. The submarine just lurches out of there, and basically kills a ton of people. Yeah. Kicking up all this ocean and drowning all of drowning. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the idea is, they knew they were coming.

Kevin Erhard  58:37
Yeah. They knew they were coming. Somebody somebody signals this the submarine and said there's like a guy that they're trying to fish out of the water Grogan, who they hadn't mentioned before, but rip Grogan rip. Broken

Phil  58:55
bar. Grogan is damn rip Josh Grogan,

Kevin Erhard  58:58
Josh Grogan and Andrew Ryan is is not happy. Oh, he

Phil  59:05
is pissed.

Kevin Erhard  59:06
And because Frank Fontaine is there to see him.

Phil  59:08
Yeah, we don't we don't have to wait very long. It's kind of fucking great. If the very next section Ryan is just fuming and then Fontane just shows up with his group and and they start negotiate. They're starting to kind of negotiate smuggling plasmids, all that shit pertains playing his cards very close to his vest. Ryan seems kind of frustrated because he's not playing. I think Ryan thinks that like they're gonna play this game of gentleman businessmen or something. And that's right. Fontaine's thing now

Kevin Erhard  59:40
he's going to undercut him anyway possible. Absolutely. Even from like so like Carl Laski is they're acting as Ryan's bodyguard. Right then like Fontane rolls in with three people like Right? There's no winning in this scene.

Phil  59:54
Right? Right. There's no winning and so basically a fun time lays it out for him. And he's like, look, basically, you leave us the fuck alone and we'll leave you alone. Yeah, but you know, there's a great section it says a Fontane smile went crooked on his face cuz Ryan mentions teleport to him and he says I'm finding teleport problematic to people who use it get extra crazy. They've given me problems. I've got my own security issues, security issues, you act as if you have your own little fiefdom here in Rapture. If I do, you gave it to me, Ryan by deceiving people about what they'd find in your pretty undersea Utopia by not providing for them once they got here. And he has a point. Yeah, and also, it's you kind of want to shout it. Ryan's like, yeah, he doesn't have a five don't isn't that the idea?

Kevin Erhard  1:00:47
Isn't the that's the goal of Rapture.

Phil  1:00:48
That's the goal. I thought the whole goal was to let great men be great man. And therein lies the problem. Most people who think of this stuff when they when they think of great men, they're not thinking about like, they're not really thinking let the cream rise to the top. They're saying me, I am going to win.

Kevin Erhard  1:01:08
I am the great man. I think I can rise to the top and he think Andrew Ryan just thinks he is just gonna coast to the top and things will be great. And Frank Fontaine is like,

Phil  1:01:19
but fuck you. And he's and he's and he's out playing him in every free possible

Kevin Erhard  1:01:24
Fontane. Basically, the summary of this scene is Fontane marches into his office with a show of strength. He's got three guys with him. He's got six more out in the hallway. And he said, and he says to Ryan, if you back the fuck off, the only concession you'll get is that I stopped distributing teleport. Right. And that's it. Everything else continues as is.

Phil  1:01:49
Yeah, I'm not that's the only concession I'm offering you mostly and mostly because I don't like teleport either. Yep. So it's just a coincidence, really. And you get the distinct impression that he'd be like, you'd be like, you know, what, if I knew that it would fuck up your little empire. I would risk keeping it out there. Yeah, even if even if it fucks things up for me a little bit. I if I knew a crush you I take that hit. So it is a really nasty scene you get you get when you have too big bads? Yep, booty Booty a pool for maybe a poll for?

Kevin Erhard  1:02:25
I don't know,

Phil  1:02:27
the answer is the one that actually seems to stick to his ethos, I think.

Kevin Erhard  1:02:31
Yeah, yeah. Fontane is very clear cut and what he believes.

Phil  1:02:34
Oh, absolutely. That brings us to a quick section where we're back into tension and a guard has been killed with a message left behind basically a warning.

Kevin Erhard  1:02:47
The blood of the Lamb will cleanse us all her time will come love to all. Yeah. So so the lamb stuff is starting to spread about

Phil  1:02:56
getting a bit of an uprising there. And yeah,

Kevin Erhard  1:03:00
he goes, lamb did. The confusing part was lamb Sullivan muttered. Ryan could jail the woman but she was still a thorn in his side. But Isn't she already jailed and Persephone?

Phil  1:03:11
Well, that's what I think he means like she can jailer but she's still a pain in the

Kevin Erhard  1:03:16
Oh, gotcha.

Phil  1:03:17
I think that's what he means.

Kevin Erhard  1:03:18
Gotcha. It's like it didn't matter that she that she's in jail. She's still doing her thing.

Phil  1:03:23
She planted the seed in a lot of people's heads, including a lot of people who are still up there who are getting even more pissed off by the day. And and so they're gonna do a lot of fucked up shit in her name. And that's the way it rolls.

Kevin Erhard  1:03:38
That's the way it rolls. Meanwhile, Andrew Ryan is is having some sexy time with with Jasmine his favorite strippers favorite

Phil  1:03:47

Kevin Erhard  1:03:49
Good for him.

Phil  1:03:50
He said he's had a long day.

Kevin Erhard  1:03:52
He's had a long day. I'm sure she's had a long day. And basically, he is just grumbling over Atlas. There is no other organizer out there other than lamb going by the name of Atlas. I wonder who that is?

Phil  1:04:10
I wonder and we're hearing and and we're hearing the catchphrase, if you will the rumblings of who is Atlas. And which of course is a direct parallel to Who is John Galt from Atlas Shrugged. So we have a usurper on the horizon here and there's a weird little moment of Jasmine wanting to tell Ryan something and he like has to pull it out of her and finally when she basically she says she she wants him to do something about the sea slugs they're like all cross her mail things Yeah, she's got a window and and the the divers in their suits. She says they scare they just look like A bunch of big daddies out there is

Kevin Erhard  1:05:01
scary old Big Daddies I call them. Yeah, something else you want to tell me? She closed her eyes purse. Your lips shook her head. He could see she had made up her mind not to tell. And it's clearly that she's pregnant. Yeah, yeah. there because there's a line of he turned to see Jasmine looking rather more full figure than usual. And I think

Phil  1:05:20
yeah, that's, that's a that's a dead giveaway right there.

Kevin Erhard  1:05:24
She's also like, I'm trying I gotta tell you something. And then she's like, the slugs on my window. I don't like them. Yeah. So like the guys that clean them. Right? I don't have anything else to say.

Phil  1:05:37
I literally have nothing else to say. Bye. Bye. So yeah, so we've got we've got some growth on the horizon. Yeah, anyway, that ends Part Two

Kevin Erhard  1:05:53
that ends part two. And so we got like, maybe a fifth of

Phil  1:05:58
the book. laughs Yeah, yeah, we've got one more episode should be one more

Kevin Erhard  1:06:02
episode should wrap it up. Because I think Part Part three is a shorten.

Phil  1:06:06
Sure, yeah. Part three, as well. About 100 pages a little over 100 pages. Yeah. So

Kevin Erhard  1:06:14
things are gonna come to a head yeah,

Phil  1:06:20
so you got some interesting stuff ahead of us, that's for sure.

Kevin Erhard  1:06:22
We do have some interesting stuff ahead of us. So so how you feeling how you feel like it's still I still really like it I think it has some some glaring issues that are probably more related to the fact that it had to be based on BioShock Yeah. itself. Yeah. Like the the depiction of Sander Cohen you know, some of the the way it does the winks and nods, but overall, I really like it.

Phil  1:06:50
Yeah, yeah. Same. I think those are my main issues. And yeah, and the and the references to the game. The little Yeah, it that's, it's just it gets there, you get a little stumbling. It's a little sloppy.

Kevin Erhard  1:07:04
You know what I do? I really like so and I hate to keep comparing it to like Deadspace martyr, but we just read it and it's still fresh in my mind. Yeah, is that so when we get the twins, the little sisters that are like, that's the whole setup. I feel like in Deadspace martyr, the way that scene would have played out is we would have had one of the characters recapping that. Like, kind of awkwardly and shortly they go yeah, these telling us these two, these two splicers killed each other, like they two people got killed. And these are their

Phil  1:07:38
their kids. They left behind, they left behind a couple of twins, it was

Kevin Erhard  1:07:42
a couple of twins. This is terrible. But instead we get it from like, oh, let's do it. Right in the moments, right? Let's actually show the heartbreak.

Phil  1:07:52
It's so much more effective. And it sticks with you. It sticks with

Kevin Erhard  1:07:55
you because it's a book and you have time to do that. And for as long as Deadspace martyr was in terms of number of pages, but it's amazing how much time it wasted.

Phil  1:08:05
It's true. There is very little time wasted here. There is no padding, I haven't there has not been a section in the book that felt padded to me, right. It's all as we talked about last episode, we're either pushing the plot forward, or we are establishing the world or we are establishing character development or a piece of the world that is going to mean something in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't feel padded, it doesn't feel that we certainly haven't had 19 different scenes where people explain the same shit that happened over and over and over again. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think there's and I think it's right to compare this to Deadspace. Martyr because of if only because they're both got similar stories, but there's a similar feel to them. That is science fiction. Yeah,

Kevin Erhard  1:09:02
it's it's that sci fi horror, and I would say the world go into hell can go into hell, you know, apocalyptic ish, right? Tense of bad futures, that kind of stuff. They all have. I mean, obviously, the balance of those genres is different different between the two of them, right? You were like putting them on sliders? I would say it's like, it's one 70% or 30%, whatever. They still have some cool some elements. They're still the ingredients are the same or similar. It's like a burrito versus a taco. You know,

Phil  1:09:40
right. There's there's a lot of similarities but once people are going to prefer one over the other, yeah, exactly. This is this is definitely the writing is so solid. This guy is this guy is he He was absolutely the right person to do the job here. I

Kevin Erhard  1:10:02
agree. I agree. generally good stuff. So that'll do it for today's episode. If you enjoy what we do, please rate us five stars on Apple and follow us on Spotify or whatever podcast catcher that you prefer to use. It really helps when you follow us really helps when you share our stuff. Tell a friend about us. And please follow us on Twitter at pixel at pod. You can check out our website at And we have Instagram pixel it pod. It's all good. Go check it out. Fun times. And that'll about do it. Have a good night everybody. Good night.

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